GROUND MOUNTING

  • GROUND MOUNTING

    A vertical antenna in its simplest form, is electrically equivalent to one-half
    of a dipole antenna stood on end. When the antenna is mounted close to
    the ground, the earth below takes the place of the "missing" half of the
    dipole. If ground conductivity is fair to good, a short metal stake or rod
    may provide a sufficiently good ground connection for resonant and low
    SWR operation on the bands for which the antenna is designed. This basic
    arrangement is shown in figure 1.

    The way it works is that the capacitance between the
    vertical radiator and the ground causes return currents
    to flow along the earths surface back to the transmitter. If they have to
    come back along untreated lossy earth thy get back to the source greatly
    attenuated. This return loss is like a resistor in series with the antenna
    radiation resistance and will therefore affect the feed point impedance.
    In almost every case the efficiency of a vertical antenna will be greater if
    radial wires are used to improve ground conductivity as in figure 2. It’s
    important to note that there’s no point in cutting radials to any particular
    length when ground mounting because the earth will detune them anyway.
    All you want to do is make the surface of the earth around the antenna more conductive than it
    is ordinarily.


  • Carl, or anyone else who may know, can a Hybrid share the same ground with another Hybrid?  I am thinking of using two Hybrids with long wires running 90 degrees from each other from the same tripod (low to the ground) and use a coax switch  to switch between the two to see/hear two different propagations.  First can they share the same ground radials, and as important, can transmitting on one cause damage to the other "idle" Hybrid through interaction of having the same ground.  Which causes me to ask another question that is similiar, can two closely operated Hybrid's be harmed through induction of a closely aligned feedline or transmission line.  The feed lines would be closely parellel for distance of the coax to the switch and radio.  The transmission lines could be close for a ways as well - I am thinking using two inverted L setups (two Hybrids at the feed point) with the vertical portions perhaps on the same pole and the horzontal lines being 90 degrees apart.   Of course one be "off" while transmitting on the other and visa versa.

    Thanks, 73 John

  • I don't why you couldn't use the same ground system for all your HYBRID. When I'm testing different antennas I very often have 2 or 3 HYBRID, CAUM or UNUN installed on the same tripod sharing the same radials and ground (aluminum patio door frame) and never got any problems.
  • OK, thank you Carl.  I was just not sure what was inside the canister of the Hybrid (curiousity has not got the best of me yet - HI), and what might happen with RF flowing back into it from the shared ground from the other Hybrid that your are transmitting through. That will make installation that much easier and when I get a chance to play with it I will send some pics.  I should get farily good propagtion for TX/RX with long wires at 90 degrees from each other and having a choice of which to use through an A/B coax switch.  And it sounds like it is OK to transmit on one Hybrid  that has its feed line and transmission line in close proximity to each other?   I envision one pole for the vertical portion of the two inverted "Ls" for both Hybrid antennas - wires not touching mind you, but within inches of each other.  I might do inverted V's as well.
  • How do you guys ground your antenna/rig when going portable/emergency or in camping operations?
  • Hi Eth0,  Here are a couple of pictures.  Using the jaw mount you can do it a couple of ways.  I took the plastic washer off the 3/8 X 24 mount where the Hybrid connects.  Then on the other side of the jaw mount I took a bolt and butterfly nut and attached the counterpoise kit wires (or you can make your own) and spread them out.  Another way is to take the counter poise wires and attach them to the bottom of the Hybrid and then screw the Hybrid on - and I think that perhaps the fastest.  I have also, althought I don't do it anymore as I found it not needed ran a jumper from the jaw mount to the JacKite pole ground mount and it is driven into the ground a couple of feet.  I don't ground my radio.  Other then what is provided my coax to other antenna mounts on the truck.  Last picture shows my radio in a Tac Comm carrier. Good luck, the Hybrid makes experimenting lots of fun as it has a lot of utility for various antenna apps.  73, John

    image

    image

    image
  • Stupid question...
    Counter poise wire are not the same as the radials? I should have at least 4 radials and a counter poise?
  • Not a stupid question at all.  I've seen the terms used interchangeably and at this point don't know the difference as I've seen it explained different ways.  So I don't have an answer for you.  I can just tell you what I do and that is using the "counterpoise" kit provide by Carl with one of these sets I bought and they attach very easily on the jaw mount, either with a bolt or under the Hybrid. That is when I go to the field.   At home I used an 8' ground rod attached to the pipe that the Hybrid is mounted (and grounded to) with no counterpoise/radial and seems to work well.  The ground is attached to the bottom of the mast in this picture:

    image

    The random wire is grounded by an 8' rod as well as a "counterpoise/radial" two wire cord that is 66' on one side and 33' on the other.   You can see the copper ground wire and counterpoise attachment to the jaw mount in this picture:

    image

    I think of the vertical/random wire in the field or at home, as transmission line that needs to have something to "push against" in the form of a ground/radial or both.  And in the end and in any case, if you are going to be using the antenna for a variety of bands a good tuner is essential - at least in my experience.  If your tuner won't find a match then the transmission line length needs to be changed or the radial length needs adjustment. 

    Anyway, your mileage may very and I've put enough heresay in this note, some other folks will hopefully offer you some additional advice - HI.

    Now the problem I have is that I've field both my Hybrids here at home and have to do other options in the field until I have enough nickles to get a CAUM.

    Take care, have fun, 73, John 

  • thx for the reply John!

    i've just discover the section of accessories while reading your previous post... then i clicked on the link...Doh!
    never notice the acccessories section!

    the other concern is the language barrier since we speak french in this part of Canada. i speak fluently in both language but i'm a bit lost sometimes with the technical words.
    anyway, i will order the kit as it's gonna be more easy for the setup and for my first experience.
    regards
    Carl
  • Radials and counterpoises are basically the same thing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoise_(ground_system)



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